Let’s talk about DMX cables. Are microphone (XLR) cables and DMX cables the same? Obviously not, but can you use microphone cables to send DMX signal?
Well, to start, companies like NSI have been making digitally controlled lighting boards and dimmer packs with signals carried through 3-pin XLR cables long before the term DMX was ever heard of here in America. (NSI calls their proprietary signal MICROPLEX and they still use it today). What do you think those digital signals were carried through back before the late 90′s when DMX was introduced to the commercial market here in America? Microphone cables.
Perhaps some cables marked “DMX Cable” might perform better than some cables marked “Microphone Cable”, but it can also be proven that some mid to high grade MIC cables work better than some DMX cables and if you and your audience can’t tell the difference, who cares? What does matter is which pins the wires are connected to on the 3 pin XLR plug.
Thanks to CheapLights.com for this article.
But Wait!
Jeff Ekstrand, Technical Director at Willow Creek North Shore has this to say: (and check out his comment below)
Our North Shore campus, where I’m the TD, runs approx. 25 movers, plus rentals. It’s an 850-seat room, to give an idea of size.
We have approx. 200-250’ in cable from console to our DMX Split. We have spans of anywhere from 6-75’ between fixtures in some places. Our installation is not ideal, given necessary cable paths and rental agreements (we rent from a school), so there are many variables that make it an absolute necessity to have the proper cable spec for a lot of our systems.
My guess, from my other experiences with various churches and consultation/training, is that a lot of other churches deal with the same type of less-than-ideal circumstances.
So sometimes proper DMX cables may be necessary…I personally use regular mic cable for our 25 fixtures…but they are simple LED par cans…
I write and speak about the creative process – especially for churches. Call me a resource for the church creative wanting to make their ministry better.
All my stage lighting cables are regular XLR mic cables. I’ve always thought it’s always a marketing ploy to get you to spend more on a “DMX” branded cable. Thanks for reassuring us on this topic. And BTW, I just found your site a few days ago and really appreciate all the work you’ve put into it, it’s been very helpful to me and for my church. Take care.
I’m going to disagree, based on the USITT DMX Specifications.
http://www.usitt.org/DMX512FAQ.aspx#a6
I’ve used microphone cable, in a pinch, in the past. When I arrived at my current position, some of our installed movers were in the DMX chain with microphone cable. Coincidentally, there many issues, during a show, with fixtures not operating properly. Quick fix, get the entire signal chain replaced with cable of the proper spec., and we’re now 100% on consistent operation.
Just my experience.
At my church we opened our new student auditorium last june. The install company we used did not use all DMX cables. This cause every single LED par can to flicker non stop as well as our scanners would randomly turn on and the mirrors would move. DMX is the only option if you want a service to run smoothly as far as lighting goes and really for any event. It cost us more money then it should to rewire our entire system from the house lights all the way down to our movers on stage. Its just not worth it to use XLR cables
I too had starting using XLR's because the DMX wires we're too long and became an eye sore. A week later we had mixing issues and they were never the same since. I just spent an hour replacing the wires back to DMX.
Are we sure that the DMX wires that come with LED light kits are not specified to light mixing and programming needs? I'm not a tech wiz on sound but Microphones are for sound, not so much for lighting. But I could be wrong. I see how the XLR's worked, but it came with complications.
While most LED’s and even many moving fixtures use the same 3-pin XLR connectors as mic cables, I would tend to be very cautious regarding using mic cable in place of DMX unless you are desperate. The short of it is that DMX is a high speed digital data feed that likes a 120 ohm impedance to work properly while mic cables transfer lower frequency analog signal that is typically likes something in the range of 75 ohms. What does this mean in real life? Basically things can get strange when trying to use mic cable as opposed to DMX because the signal travels differently. I have personally been in a pinch and used mic cable and have had fixtures in the chain start acting on their own or not acting when commanded and the issues were fixed immediately once the mic cables were out of the loop. When you are sending up to 512 different commands (which is how DMX 512 works, 512 values between 0 and 255), you really want the impedance to be correct so you don’t have errant commands or commands that get lost. Now I have used mic cable using only a handful of fixtures in a short distance run application without issue so it is possible that nothing will happen, but if I’m going to go through the effort of creating and programming lights for a service or event, I’m not willing to go with a cable that only “might” work properly. Why spend $500 to $5000 on a great light and then skimp out $5 extra for the right control cable to make your fixture work properly. It doesn’t make sense.
There is a difference and whenever possible use only DMX cable for lights. If you’re concerned about a price difference, a mid-grade DMX should cost about the same as a mid-grade mic cable. I’ve bought both for years. If you need help, you’re welcome to contact me.
Duke DeJong
duke.dejong1@gmail.com
I have to go with Duke here as well. There is a difference. You should use “DMX” data grade cable for your lighting fixtures. The longer the run, the more problems I seem to have, but I have had problems on short runs as well. When I arrived at my recent postion, they had standardized on 3 pin XLR audio cable for ease of use. By simply switching out to 5 pin data grade DMX cable we where able to eliminate 90% of our moving light issues. For reference, we are using 10 High End studio spots and 4 stuido color fixtures. We also have 8 Elation ELED strips in line as well.
Duke is spot on with his points. There is a big difference between Mic cable and DMX data grade cable. It is not a marketing ploy just to sell cable. Sadly, missinformation and “I got away with it” just spreads the confusion. As a manufacturer of DMX equipment, we have too many tech support calls where the root cause is the wrong cable, no data terminator, or both. Seemingly random problems will float around the system; flickering LEDs, twitching moving lights, a scroller miscue, and then they don’t repeat when testing a unit on the bench.
You can spend the same money on the correct DMX cable, as you can a Mic cable. There is no technical justification to use the wrong cable. And if money is a concern, what about the lost time trying to chase a ghost, or worse yet a compromised performance?
No, you don’t have to change your car oil every 3,000 miles. You can get away with 9,000 miles or more if you want. Will your car be at peak performance and be just as reliable? No.
I have to agree with Gary, Micah, Duke, and Jeff. The two different cables exist because they do different things. An audio cable is made to handle an analog signal. DMX cables are made to handle a Digital signal, the bad part about a Digital signal is it will continue working right up until the moment when it stops. Then without any warning your whole rig could be going crazy. this would be a pretty embarrassing thing to happen in the middle of a service because you didn’t want to spend a few extra bucks on a cable.
Could you edit your post to reflect this? Also I’m not sure cheaplights is a great place to be getting lighting information.
Wow! What horribly bad information.
First NSI's MICROPLEX is an analog multiplex format that was derived from AMX 192, a proprietary format that Strand developed to control their racks. The Microplex standard was developed specifically to run on Mic cables. It is not DMX, which is a digital control protocol, or even close to DMX so you can't even compare the two.
Second you basically declare NSI an industry standard and a leader in lighting control. They are not. Not even close.
DMX is based on the EIAA RS485 electrical standard, as such for best results you need a cable type that has the proper resistance and capacitance characteristics. Simply put you need a DMX cable.
DMX was developed in 1986 and before it's widespread adoption lighting control was from analog control (not through Mic Cables) or via a proprietary multiplexing protocol that was either analog or digital.
The DMX standard states that only 5 Pin XLR connectors are to be used although many cheap lighting fixtures use 3 Pin XLR's.
While you might get away with mic cables, you tend to be asking for trouble doing so.
Also if you ever hook your NSI Microplex console to a DMX fixture you will probably end up toasting the DMX fixture.
A special thanks to CheapLights for providing crappy information along with their crappy lights.
Greg Persinger
Thank you, well stated. Some day everyone will hear your gospel.
I couldn't agree more… well with the cheaplights comment. I don't know much about the DMX stuff ha ha
But what happens the other way around, if I use DMX-cables to audio equipment? Will it decrease the sound quality?
Being a mobile DJ there’s a lot cables that should set up before every gig and lots of cables to pack after the gig. So I would prefer to use one kind of cable to all equipment to simplify.
Would it better to use DMX or microphone cables in that case?
Thanks / DJ Stockholm
DJ,
I can understand the desire to simplify your cable load but instead of trying to use only one type of cable and therefore potentially jeopardizing either your audio or lighting, I might look at putting one color electrical tape on the ends of your audio cables and another color on your DMX. Makes it simple to keep them straight and still maintains the integrity of your audio and lighting gear. Win-win I think.
I was Google searching XLR vs DMX, and came across your site. This is all very helpful information everyone is posting, so hopefully someone has an answer to my question; we have purchased 4 new moving lights which have 3-pin DMX connections. Our boards all have 5-pin connections, so obviously I'll need to make or buy some adapters. From all the previous posts, it seems it's worth it to buy a new spool of actual DMX cable. The 5 pin connectors as well. But… since I already have plenty of spare 3 pin XLR connectors for making audio cables, does anyone know if those will work on DMX, or is there an actual XLR connector specifically for DMX? Also, does anyone know what wires connect to what pin when going from 3 to 5 pins? Thanks in advance if anyone can share their experience in this matter!
Hi G D. Got someone checking into this right now. Sorry it's taken so long. Good question though. :)
Any standard XLR connector (3 or 5 pin) should work fine. I tend to prefer Nuetrik connectors myself. As far as wiring goes, DMX standard says:
Pin 1 – Ground
Pin 2 – pair 1 negative (typically darker colored wire)
Pin 3 – pair 1 positive (typically lighter colored wire)
Pin 4 – pair 2 negative
Pin 5 – pair 2 positive
When wiring, if you are not sure which color goes to which pin, as long as you do the same color from pin 2 to pin 2 and the same from 3 to 3, it should work fine. As far as making a 3-5 pin cable, simply wire the 3-pin connector on one side and wire the first 3 pins of the 5-pin connector, leaving 4 and 5 empty. Even though DMX standard is 5-pin, pins 4 and 5 don't get used (longer story).
Happy wiring! Don't hesitate to let me know if there is anything else I can do.
Thank you so much for the help and information!!
most mic cables will fall in the range of 100 ohm, DMX cable should have a range of 120 ohm. I use Cat 5 cable in most of our installs. If cables are to be used on floors I will use stranded cat 5 due to its flexibility. Cat 5 is so much less costly than DMX cable.
A side note If you have older Martin Intelligent fixtures. When making up the 3 pin to 5 pin adaptor cable you need to make the first cable a crossover cable. like so 1-1, 2-3, 3-2 the older Martin XLR were wired with the #2 pin hot
I would like to add my own experience to the list of comments here in the hope that someone else can manage to avoid what happened to me. I accidentally used an XLR cable in place of a DMX cable for a gig for the band I do lighting for. It took 45 minutes of mucking around with the lights (with some of them refusing to accept a signal and others flickering randomly)… I didn't think that this might be a symptom of a bigger problem until now.
Two songs into a five song set the lights suddenly stopped accepting signals… This was during a dramatic pause when the lighting was all entirely off. The result was that until I could grab the sound engineer and get him to fix up one of their inhouse lights (which couldn't be controlled from the lighting desk) the band was in total darkness… I managed to get the lights eventually to accept a single signal that set them all to red, then I retired in shame as I didn't dare mess up again.
Since then I have tested the cables that I use and tested the difference between using all DMX and using XLR… XLR meant that two of the lights won't accept messages and the rest brightly flicker every minute or so. It's not worth cheaping out on the cables if you end up putting your gig in any danger whatsoever…
ouch! your pain is duly felt. I realize this article needs a total rewrite…and I've asked many to attempt with no takers. (I'm not so much a gear/tech head so I'm not entirely sure I'm qualified)
Just a thought from a TD whose been around for a while.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned one of the most obvious points:
Microphone cables are not well treated by almost everyone. I've been all over the world and only about 5 percent of professionals — not talking about amateurs — actually care for their mike cables properly. Many do not realize how quickly they deteriorate just from coiling and storing them incorrectly. Just leave a couple of twists in a cable and store it that way for a while and it loses its analog fidelity measurably.
Problem is people don't often notice mike cable deterioration because there are so many variables from one gig to another (or even one day to another in fixed installations). A little difference in temperature or air pressure or a thousand other details can make audible differences.
Therefore due to the robust nature of analog sound a mike cable can deteriorate almost to the point of cutting out before anyone wonders if the sound quality of a signal is due to a mike cable. As long as the mike cable is not noticeably noisy everyone thinks its working fine. I hardly ever go anywhere where I don't see people stepping on and walking over cables. In traffic areas they just duct tape them to hold them in place but there's nothing protecting them from being stepped on.
While analog signalling is very tolerant of signal distortion — digital signalling depends on clean crisp square wave forms. Cable deterioration can have a huge impact on the reliability of digital signals. Error correction schemes inherent in digital signalling help but are not foolproof as the signalling load increases and as cable conductor temperatures change.
Therefore if you are using new mike cables dedicated only for lighting and if you are caring for them like digital signal cables — you can get away with doing that more easily. But why? You're not saving any money really and due to differences in conductive specs you are always taking risks that can bite you hardest when you need the gear the most.
As a general rule the more complex the information and the longer the distances the more likely you are to have a problem. Also some equipment manufacturers maintain better and more consistent signalling with higher quality components and therefore have more tolerance of bad specs. There's a ton of variables and that is precisely why it makes sense to eliminate every possible one within reasonable cost parameters in time or equipment.
Let's face it — the main reason anyone would want to use mike cable with 3 Pin XLR's are so that they can "save money" by interchanging them with mike cables when necessary — or to just have one pool of cables for mike and lighting. Huge mistake I think.
While there are many reasons — the NUMBER ONE reason mike cables fail on lighting systems is that the (almost certainly) abused mike cables will act like they are still working when they have deteriorated past the point of supporting digital signal integrity.
Again if you use mike cable that is new and of high quality you'll be risking a lot less. But the question is still "why"? You won't save anything and you'll increase your probability of having problems.
Maybe we should talk. If you send me an email I'll be in touch.
I have just found this site and would like to add just two comments. First, Mic cable is bad to use and I highly recommend only using cable manufactured to the DMX standard which is appropriate for the high speed digital signal. Second, alot of comments are using the term "XLR cable", this is an incorrect use of XLR. XLR refers to a style of connector which comes in 3,4,5,6, and 7 pin versions. You will find that the Rosco 1500 fog machine used the 7 pin variety. The whole problem that started the confusion of using 3 pin XLR cables designed for audio, is when manufacturers decided to violate the USITT standard for DMX and produce fixtures with the 3 pin connectors instead of the 5 pin as required in the standard. If that had never happened then people would not think they could use a mic cable for lighting fixtures.
Depending on your venue. You can make DMX Data Cable from cat5. It takes some skill but if the cables are not going to be going the “road” hardship then cat5 isn’t a bad Idea. If you are a church in the theater venue scene then don’t use it. You will be breaking cable faster then you can make it.
Hello Friends,
Using mic cable at your peril, I have used mic cable, and yes mic cable will work in short runs-Yes there is a difference in using Quality Cables-when it is your show you want the best you can afford-There have had several exciting moments in show when everything was fine, then nothing worked, even blackout!-OMGosh-one of the items purchased is an opto isolated spliter 4ch amp-abt $200-that one item made a ton of difference-as people have said above the DMX is a digital signal-Using other types of cables inserts all kinds of reflections and loss into the system-a DMX quality cable is 110 ohms-Cat 5/6 is 110 ohms as well but would never make it in a tour enviroment- it does make a difference-DMX is not voodoo-but it needs to be correct in order to work ->consistanly…ALSO, very important is to terminate the end with 110/120ohm resistor-does not have to be exact, just not 600ohm like in audio, or 1000ohm out of the spares drawer lol…
IMHO the higher impediance of mic cable rounds the signal to the point it quits working in longer distances-
ALSO another place to look is USB voltage-sometimes out of the port on the computer it isn’t really 5v-get a powered usb hub for the dmx adapter…
I guess you guys understand the addressing of fixtures part of dmx-some really weird things happen when fixture addresses overlap-just another tip
Rich
I run a portable lighting rig, around 30 or so LED fixtures, and 4-6 movers, with conventional dimmers, and hazers and strobes. I use all microphone cables. The only times that I have had problems is when I get an “inexpensive” cable in the mix. Now all our cables are quality neutrik connectors with Canare braided shield star-quad cabling. I have made 250 foot runs with no problems what so ever. Secondly, “inexpensive” fixtures will throw junk down your lines causing havoc in your system. Throw in other issues that we deal with like “dirty” power, and its a wonder anything ever works. Sum it up as, cheap cables and cheap fixtures will be your downfall.
In my Experience the XLR cables work just fine for lights without moving parts like the Chauvet Colorstrips but as soon as i add in lights with moving parts such as my Scorpion storm fx or even my Chauvet Abyss the lights following them get loss of signal I even tried using a dmx terminator to solve this but to no avail so i switched all my cables to DMX problems solved
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE
So if your only running non moving lights you may be ok with the XLR cables.
I don’t know if that’s so much of a cable issue but more of an issue of having to many lights on a sing run. Having to many movers on any single run may cause data loss. Especially if there is a long cable run before the first light in line.
To deal with this issue I would do the home run line with CAT5 to a DP, NSP or ETC Gateway if you’re using Hog 3, GrandMA or ETC consoles.
If you can’t afford a data processor get an optosplitter and use CAT5 For any hard wire long runs. Terminators work but they don’t fix the problem of to many lights on a single daisy chain with movers, dimmers and LED’s.
HOG 500′s are horrid when it comes to running long daisy chains. Its almost mandatory to use a Opto with 500′s.
HOG 3 Doesn’t even have DMX outs only HogNet to DP’s. Problem solved with that.
ETC 48/96 consoles can really pump data for single long daisy chain runs. But I still recommend using optos.
welll the funny thing is that, seeing our church is completely using state of the arts lighting system, which consists of 46 Martin Mac 250′s along with a a grand ma 2 lighting desk and a couple of pacific profile lighting and standard par cans along with led cans for up lighting the walls, well that’s besides the point, we spend probably about a few thousand or so on our PROPER DMX cables and we have probably about 300 schools using our auditorium which can sit about 2000 people in it (no lie) and everybody tells us that this is the best lighting system they have ever seen. so there it does help if you use dmx cables because we spent about 32 grand on robe colors spots 575 at’s and they were in ur junk pile due to the cables. we used.
I had a big write-up describing my experience but it doesn’t matter… I’m pretty sure for every horror story there is one like mine that hasn’t had a problem. But no matter what buy good quality cables and usually the cables that come with the fixture not good quality. So with that I’m done nothing else to say.
Just a few of small points for proper communication.
1. XLR is a connector, not a cable type.
2. DMX is a protocol.
3. Both DMX cables and Mic cables can use XLR connectors.
4. DMX can be terminated in many different types of connectors, but the 3-pin XLR is discouraged because of the potential for damage, such as plugging in a DMX cable into a mixer input with phantom power. It is also discouraged because you DO NOT want to use microphone cable (analog) for DMX (digital) applications.
So, I am a little confused. The pin outs of 3pin XLR or DMX are the same. So it all boils down to two things, resistance and shielding, correct? The resistance determines how much the signal regrades due to loss, and the shielding determines how much the signal degrades due to outside influence.
I can see how a DMX cable spec have better shielding. But, in the end, a copper wire of a certain gauge and length has a predetermined resistance. Most threads here are talking about the resistance of the cable. I have seen “DMX” cables listed as 22g, and good XLR cables listed as 20g or better. Does it really not boil down to shielding and gauge? (Assuming good quality materials, of course, which DMX or XLR may or may not have.)
~ Shawn
For instance, to simplify, let’s forget shielding for a second.
How could a:
22g “DMX” good quality XLR cable
be better for DMX than a
18g “Audio” good quality cable
The higher the gauge, the lower the resistance. Resistance is Resistance, analog or digital signal.
And, if a signal can pass a digital signal sleanly (DMX) then it certainly can pass an audio (analog) signal cleanly. Assuming that the current is comparable between the two, which it is.
If what I am saying it true, then it boils down to three things:
- quality (pureness of conductor)
- gauge (resistance)
- shielding (needed for DMX, won’t hurt audio)
~ Shawn
Good day all!
I found this thread looking for answers and it has confirmed what I already believed, but not provided an absolute answer to my queries???
We have an emerging entertainment company offering Sound Reinforcement, DJs, Bands, Stage Lighting, Party Lighting and Up Lighting. My partner and I have been gigging (audio) for over a decade. Lighting was added a year ago because it was necessary and appears to be profitable.
I clearly understand that cable to be used for DMX controlled lighting should be shielded cable and we have made it our standard. All our light fixtures and controllers have 3 pin in and out ports.
I also understand that speaker cable (or any cable that carry high wattage) should be thick like 12 gauge.
All of this to ask, SHOULD shielded DMX cables be used as microphone cables? Outside of the abuse that microphone cables get (trampled and knotted), I can clearly see how the get degraded and that may be harder or easier on shielded cable? I also am led to believe that the shielded (DMX) would decrease (even analog) interference?
I would appreciate an educated, experienced and prompt reply. I tried to be clear, so my question could be addressed.
Thanks you in advance!!!
Jordan